Yamaha NS 1000

[jazach]

Are they any good, are you better off with modern speakers?
They seem to be appreciating in price and I'm wondering if it's a case of perceived value.

 

[Larry]

Biggest issue is finding a pair in one piece and still cosmetically good too. Parts are obviously a bigger and bigger problem and those tweeters are now “unobtanium”.

I think you have to be a die hard supporter to chase them.

 

[Chingy]

We buy Hifi has an very good condition pair for sale, no price yet

 

[HOTaljaard]

Biggest issue is finding a pair in one piece and still cosmetically good too. Parts are obviously a bigger and bigger problem and those tweeters are now “unobtanium”.

I think you have to be a die hard supporter to chase them.

Or be prepared to buy a second pair for spare parts.

 

[Jozua_2023]

They are nice speakers - but then they also somehow remind me of the time window in Cuba where most people enjoy driving 30-40 year old cars.

Collectable yes, nice to look at, they do appreciate in value, they love a gentle loving dusting now and then and an occasional switch on to loosen the surrounds.

Preferably not to be used as the primary listening speakers - rather enjoy them on special occasions like bar mitzvah's, engagements, divorces and funerals.

Should the midrange or tweeter dome break during any of the above functions - evacuate the room immediately and call the emergency to remove the highly toxic and carcinogenic substances.

Basically a speaker to cherish, admire, to buy for resell purposes and if you really have to, enjoy at your own risk.

 

[Sarel.wagner]

After years of searching, I managed to find a pair of destroyed and cosmetically messed up NS1000M’s. About a P (way way beyond an F) on the cosmetic scale. Them tweeters are missing and another set of incorrect tweeters was installed. So then why buy them at all? I recently restored a Yamaha vintage receiver and TT and was looking to get a set of period correct speakers for this. In good condition, the NS1000M’s are legendery. Are they the best, nope. The response suffers from hf rolloff, but they sound amazing, even with their compromises, like most other speakers. Speakers are a compromise, these are however unique with a very dedicated following and became a symbol of excellent engineering and quality.

Will post up some pictures in my restore thread on here.

Groetnis

 

[Jozua_2023]

After years of searching, I managed to find a pair of destroyed and cosmetically messed up NS1000M’s. About a P (way way beyond an F) on the cosmetic scale. Them tweeters are missing and another set of incorrect tweeters was installed. So then why buy them at all? I recently restored a Yamaha vintage receiver and TT and was looking to get a set of period correct speakers for this. In good condition, the NS1000M’s are legendery. Are they the best, nope. The response suffers from hf rolloff, but they sound amazing, even with their compromises, like most other speakers. Speakers are a compromise, these are however unique with a very dedicated following and became a symbol of excellent engineering and quality.

Will post up some pictures in my restore thread on here.

Groetni

Judging by your previous restoration work, I know the outcome will be exceptional.

One never knows what destiny brings - should we stumble across some unwanted donor tweeters - your name will be written on them.

 

[Shonver]

Them tweeters are missing and another set of incorrect tweeters was installed.

What tweeters were fitted?

 

[Sarel.wagner]

Yamaha fabric tweeters from a NS-5

Groetnis

 

[Christowp]

There are few speakers (even modern) and custom DIY designs that have the pedigree of the Yamaha NS 1000. The research and development that went into the design including the choice of and advanced techniques to work with Beryllium as driver material, was way ahead if its time. The overall build quality of cabinets and crossover network choice and construction of drivers (all done in house by Yamaha) all add up to an exceptional speaker. Many top audiophile journalists still regard it as one of the best speakers ever manufactured. I treasure my NS 1000 speakers and do not even consider other speakers as potential replacements. Its been my end game speaker for almost 20 years now.

 

[Agaton Sax]

The Yamaha NS 1000M has to be one of the most iconic speakers of all time.The famed mid and treble units both use beryllium diaphragms. This exceptionally light and stiff material is extremely hard to work with and extremely toxic and extremely expensive. There has been recent resurgence in the use of this material, headed by Focal and can now be found in aftermarket compression driver dias and every high end speaker you can shake stick at . BUT.

The new speakers inevitably use a sheet of berillium and the diaphragm is then stamped from it and shaped. This makes a light and strong driver that has breakups high in the audio freq. But it is thickish and thus heavier than:

The Japanese of the 70s spearheaded by the Technical Audio Device division of Pioneer ( and I assume Yamaha did the same) developed a technique where Beryllium was spluttered in a vacuum, making for an extremely light and strong membrane. Therein lies the true magic. I assume this was dangerous or expensive or maybe the old guys died but AFAIK nobody does it anymore. So older really is better in this case.

Now from personal experience the following. Beryllium is considered a strategic nuclear material in Japan. It is absolutely not allowed to export such material to a country that is considered Trerrorism friendly like this place we stay in. It is even difficult to export from Japan anywhere. That is why very high end driver manufacturer ,Goto, has at the very top of its range BE drivers for Japan and the rest of the world has to pay the Dollar 6 figures for a driver that has an Aluminium diaphragm. So a second pair of NS 1000 as spares ? Maybe not so easy .Add to that that this bureaucratic ,inept government has now in its ,all encompassing, stupidity added that one should get an import permit to import all used goods and your chances are ZERO. As an aside ,Ingvar gifted me a phono needle. For goodness sake. DHL will not release it because I have no permit for it! Never mind that I already have an import permit, no,no this is another piece of triple stamped paper from another department for a piece of plastic and copper the size of bug..

But there is light.I forget which, but in the 70s a certain record company would not allow any record bar (now that is a word from long ago) to sell its records unless said shop had a pair of NS 1000M as replay. True? I do not know but is what I heard. So there should be more in SA than one would expect.

The retro spectroscope is a very serious device but I keep getting back that when my passion for this hobby started .We all would bow and scrape to awfully built, awfully looking British boxes and in our ignorance snigger at high end Pioneer, Technics etc . And Sony Esprits. Go stand in the corner you ,you ignoramus. But there were gems especially at the very high end and Yamaha was right up there. The only Yamaha I owned then was that pyramidical cube of Carver infringing patent power amp and nothing I have owned since has been built that beautiful. I currently have a lowly pair of HS 5 powered speakers . One blew and I was on the verge of throwing it away. Instead my wife took it behind my back to my Tech who is still raving about how cleverly it was designed and the way it used a very clever conventional amp on the bass and not cheap digital stuff.

 

[Shonver]

The NS-1000s are quite revealing. I am fortunate to have sampled a few of their "Natural Sound" speakers and I can attest that getting out of the way is in fact what they do. I have lived with NS-1000Ms, owned NS-100s for a while and now in the process of resto-mod-ing some NS690s.

The thing that NS-1000 spoiled me with, apart from its transparency, is dynamics: lack of compression within the limits of normal as well sometimes rather loud listening. In this respect, the speaker that could do it better was the late Rodney Gold's G1yas. Another totally different animal worth mentioning on the topic was the AvantGarde speakers at Achim's (13 Hof) - but these were OTT. They had what I would call super-dynamics. One other mention of a speaker with good dynamics was a set of HK pro speakers that I encountered by chance on demo in a parking lot one day. Strange how I instantly recognised that they were something special as I was passing them!

This is the journey that has brought me to the point of being in the process of building speakers that have excellent dynamic range while some audiophile drivers lie unused in my cupboard.

 

[naboo]

Here is Danny's view... Personally, I think he is just selling (that's his game, after all), but leaving it here in case @Sarel.wagner wants to pimp his speakers

 

[Sarel.wagner]

but leaving it here in case @Sarel.wagner wants to pimp his speakers

Hahaha, how do you like them apples from Danny? No mine will be restored cosmetically to as new, tweeters replaced by correct items and the xovers restored if needed. They will stay, warts and all, like Yamaha meant them to be, including it’s lumpy response

Groetnis

 

[Shonver]

Here is Danny's view... Personally, I think he is just selling (that's his game, after all), but leaving it here in case @Sarel.wagner wants to pimp his speakers

I have twice failed at upgrading/re-engineering commercial speakers. The first was a pair of Wharfedale 10.1s and the next was a version of Daan Jakobs' Reference 2s. All other attempts involved replacing the tweeter - usually with something more modern - and were both successful quite satisfying. In the case of the failed projects, it emerged that the designers had done the best possible job with the respective driver complements; there was just nothing more one could reasonably do to significantly improve them.

Now on to the NS-1000s. If you have a look at Troels' project, it will be evident from his measurements that the drivers don't measure "hi-fi" (many modern drivers measure more flat). He only provides frequency response and impedance measurements, whereas DR in his video also shows waterfall plots. There are commonalities with DR's and TG's measurements. However, Troels did not report an energy-storage issue with the mid. I always thought that the NS-1000 could be improved upon. For me it came down to 3 things: (a) the woofer is suited to ported or transmission line alignment - I would redesign the enclosure, (b) the high crossover frequency to the tweeter and (c) the early roll-off of the tweeter's top end (though I must say that you don't actually hear the latter). I feel that the tweeter can be bested by many high-end tweeters commonly available to DIYers. I would also have evaluated a different crossover topology (I feel that 4th order crossovers do a good job of controlling driver bandwidth though, woofer/mid-wise, the original topology is probably dictated by the driver choice).

My criticisms of DR's upgrades are:
(1) I hope that, given the age of the speaker, he would have confirmed that the measured mid resonance is also manifested in the other speaker.
(2) He glossed over the cabinet construction and never mentioned construction quality of the drivers (he clumsily slaps on some of his "no-res" pads, claiming it should improve panel resonance).
(3) He was dismissive of the quality of the crossover. But that is his nature.
(4) Given the iconic status of this speaker, I would have expected a before/after subjective comparison. He should have at least interrogated what the hype is all about. I found this disrespectful - at best, ignorant. But my bad for having unrealistic expectations, knowing his MO.

 

[Sarel.wagner]

People, I am one of those, mess with and modify things all the time. Sometimes for the better, on average, I suspect the opposite. I modify things to suit myself all the time. I love to experiment and improve things. Even more is taking them orphaned things, restoring em and get them back to life, and usable.

In part, the NS1000 series of speakers was a sensation when launched, and righty so. The mids and tweeters were a tour de force and made out of Beryllium as we know, and Yamaha touted to the moon and back. The sensationalism stemmed from that, and the reviews at the time. These things were a cut above most of the rest from that era. They were not perfect, but for the time, the compromises were spot one, and the price was good for what ya got.

I have a pair of NS690 III bought new at the time, I could not afford the NS1000's. These were amazing, and still is to this day. Every speaker has flaws, and character. At what point does the modifications change the speaker into something that is no longer even close to what it was when new. A different beast altogether? And then, what is the point of that? Maybe go buy the speakers you want in the first place, without all the issues you are trying to correct, buy that is just me and my opinion.

Do I need better NS1000M's, heck no, but maybe someone else wants that. I have other modern speakers, and also much older ones, each serves a purpose. The NS1000 series of speakers are iconic for a lot of reasons, justified or not. Most owners in the know, will never let them go. But then again, look at the orphans I ended up with, almost destroyed. YMMV

SpeakerGroetnis