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DAC Technological Progress

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optimus

Active member
Joined
Jul 13, 2023
Messages
58
Location
South Africa
Hi Guys. I am buying an amp with a DAC Module added on. I get the pros of having a DAC that was built around an amplifier and removing a separate component in the chain

My question around this is how fast are DACS improving ? Are we at the point with cell phones about 10-15 years ago where every release was a huge jump from the next or is it pretty stable?
 
There was a big leap a few years ago with the development of better DAC chips
You also have the competing technology of R2R in DAC design

One highly thought of brand, the Denafrips range available from Singpore, uses this technology and it does work well

IMHO the improvements today are not startling. But there are improvements none the less. I have tried out 9 different makes in the past 6 years

The Denafrips ARES is now called the ENYO. This model has had 4 revisions since it was launched in 2017. You can see the rows of resistors

1690801476568.png
 
Good question. A built-in DAC in a preamp or integrated amp has one large advantage: perfect integration with the preamp stage in terms of level matching for optimum distortion and output power, and less cost on the connector, cabling and line driver side since it's a known load. There's also the advantage of 'sonic signature' matching to lessen the risk of you having to go through the variations yourself of finding a good synergy. The DAC in a Gryphon Diablo is remarkable actually, but it will still not compete against their own external DACs connected to its analog inputs. However, the Gryphon DAC is a moerse module fully encased in aluminium, not just a slot-in card. Because the interfaces to the DACs are fairly well abstracted and detailed, manufacturers often can upgrade the module without needing to change anything on the amp.
Taking the Brinkmann Nyquist as an interesting example: the DAC/Streamer itself is also a removable encased module and has gone through some upgrades and improvements. The real expensive part is actually everything around it, which is the analog tube stage and of course all the power supplies.

From there onwards it's all bad news though:
- Limited real estate. You will never find a (good) R2R DAC for example as a module since there simply is no space for it. Tubes I've seen before but once again compromises have to be made due to space.
- Limited, contaminated, power supplies. Usually the DAC power supplies will get spun off from one of the other auxiliary power supplies and not enjoy a variety of dedicated clean rails. Grounding can also be sub-par since there is real risk of ground loops by the connectors carrying both digital, analog and power on the singular ground. Stuff like dual-mono power supplies etc. are out the window.

So in my opinion, a built-in module can be a great stepping stone but is not and end-game solution against a carefully selected separates setup.
 
i have an amp with a built in dac.
i prefer to use an external dac via analogue input - it just sounds better.
 
optimus said:
Thanks guys. Some great first hand experience here
Click to expand...
For me, a separate DAC, with external clock still the best sounding option. I've listened to many integrated amplifiers with built in DACs and none could get close to separates. The best all in one that I've heard was the ML 585.
 
Some interesting thoughts from another forum.

forum.audiogon.com

Audiogon Discussion Forum

The general consensus here seems to be that standalone DACs are generally better than those built into an integrated amplifier. Many also agree that sta...
forum.audiogon.com forum.audiogon.com
 
I guess this is slightly off-topic, but it IS a dac...


Keen to try it (once I finish my current diy dac 😂)
 
So , I bought the Gryphon Diablo 120 with the DAC module built in.

The testing on whether a built in DAC is (subjectively) better than my stand alone streamer/dac will begin soon 😬
 
optimus said:
So , I bought the Gryphon Diablo 120 with the DAC module built in.

The testing on whether a built in DAC is (subjectively) better than my stand alone streamer/dac will begin soon 😬
Click to expand...
Very very keen to hear your thoughts.

I'm moving on from the Devialets. Sales deal has been concluded.
I've just pulled the trigger on a Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC. Bank account is showing a serious dent.
Amplification is still up in the air, one option I'm considering is the Diablo 300 paired with Vivid Audio Giya G2's. The other the Mola Mola Kaluga's.
 
drifter said:
Very very keen to hear your thoughts.

I'm moving on from the Devialets. Sales deal has been concluded.
I've just pulled the trigger on a Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC. Bank account is showing a serious dent.
Amplification is still up in the air, one option I'm considering is the Diablo 300 paired with Vivid Audio Giya G2's. The other the Mola Mola Kaluga's.
Click to expand...
When you are done I would really like to hear that combo 😅
 
drifter said:
Very very keen to hear your thoughts.

I'm moving on from the Devialets. Sales deal has been concluded.
I've just pulled the trigger on a Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC. Bank account is showing a serious dent.
Amplification is still up in the air, one option I'm considering is the Diablo 300 paired with Vivid Audio Giya G2's. The other the Mola Mola Kaluga's.
Click to expand...
Very nice
When it arrives, please post here
 
Dredging up a bit of an older post here, but a quick update for those still interested.

I got my hands on a latest generation Node and been using that extensively with the DAC on the Diablo 120,via USB

There is a very distinct difference is sound but as one of posters above has alluded to, it difficult to outright call it better.
 
Isn't this femto clock thingy something new from the mid 20-teens? is it audible? I have no idea - my DACs don't have the femto clock.
 
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